Beware Comair
I’m back home from Toronto, having arrived early this morning after my flight from Cincinnati was delayed. I’ve been puttering around since I woke up at 2pm — playing with my cat, nursing a couple of cups of coffee. Later today — as I unpack and start doing my laundry from the trip — I’ll be posting a few more entries from the conference, backdated to the date and time that I scrawled them on hotel stationary.
First, though, I wanted to post a warning to anyone considering flying Delta Air Lines in the near future. Unless you live in or near a city with a major hub airport, chances are good that you’ll have to take a connecting flight to a hub on a partner or subsidiary airline. Delta uses Comair, a wholly owned subsidiary of Delta Air Lines, for this purpose.
Now I used to like Delta. They provided good service on well-maintained aircraft, and I’d never had a plane delayed for technical reasons while flying with them. That’s why I picked them for my trip to Toronto. Unfortunately three of the four legs of my journey ended up being flown with Comair, which provides a very different experience from Delta. Comair uses the Canadair Regional Jet for its fleet — not a bad aircraft at all, if properly maintained. On may way back from Toronto, however, I flew in two CRJs that were in obviously poor condition.
The first Comair plane had one broken seat, 3A, which was taped over from one arm rest to the other with several pieces of cellophane tape and had a sign taped to the back indicating that it was “unavailable.” The tray-tables in that plane didn’t work properly either — both I and my neighbor had trouble getting our trays to drop and extend properly. The second leg of my return trip, Cincinnati to Wichita, was flown on a plane that had to wait on the tarmac for almost an hour while emergency mechanical repairs were made. While pulling back from the gate, two hydraulic pumps blew out. Once those were fixed, they couldn’t get the cabin door closed again because something was wrong with it.
All together, this trip has ruined my confidence in Comair and, by extension, in Delta. Since I don’t live anywhere near a Delta hub, at least part of any trip I take will always be on Comair. Therefore, I won’t be flying Delta anymore.
i fly those regional jets all the time and have never had a problem, must have been a dissappointing and rare day. Those planes are phenomenal. Most of the time zero problems.
Comment by leo — September 10, 2004 @ 7:00 am
maybe i should keep my mouth shut, but i’ve worked for Comair for two years and know a little about what we do. the airline operates hundreds of flights a day without a problem. yes, there are sometimes mechanical difficulties. we talking about machines here, which involve engines, computers, electrical mechanisms and the general construction of the exterior and interior. over time and the kind of use they get there is bound to be wear and tear. some of the planes are several years old. we acquire new aircraft as Delta sees fit to provide it. but they are all jets, comfortable enough for the short flights they run. Sometimes there’s no time in between it’s scheduled flights to fix a small thing like a seatbelt or coffeepot or (and i hate to admit this one) the lavatory. but the plane does not continue several days like that. overnight the maintenance team takes care of things like that. (to my knowledge.) The bigger things that affect the plane’s operation obviously must be fixed before it goes anywhere, which sometimes causes a delay. but wouldn’t you rather fly on a reliable jet that’s just been fixed and tested before flight? I am sorry you had a bad experience the other day. I hope you’d consider giving us another chance, or at least not tell the world to avoid us. We strive to maintain a safe, reliable airline in a competitive industry. Many people are very satisfied with our service. Just so you know, it’s not my job to respond to this kind of thing or anything like that. i just happened to stumble accross your post and couldn’t resist saying something. it’s just as frustrating for us who are trying to get a flight out to it’s destination as it is for passengers when a flight is delayed for any reason. so basically i just want to say “i understand, and i’m sorry” and please try again.
Comment by anonymous — September 11, 2004 @ 11:50 am
The FAA has a great website giving you real-time info on airport delays. This can be very handy if, say, Delta, uh, Comair tells you that your late flight from Boston to RDU is delayed and then cancelled due to fog at RDU, and you’re noticing that the similar American flight left
Pingback by My Minimal Blog Presence — April 14, 2005 @ 7:02 am
Isn’t it sad that nowadays these so-called “regional jets” have become the norm???
50-90 passenger jetliners flown — not by Delta Air Lines pilots and maintained by Delta Air Lines mechanics — but by some low-paid subsidiary.
It’s not only Delta of course, but USAir, UAL, Northwest, American.. almost every company outsources the RJs to the lowest bidder.
Would you buy a ticket on a company called Chautauqua Airlines? Trans-States? Mesa Air Lines? Probably not, but you do so unknowingly every day because the airplane says, “Delta Connection” on the side.
“Regional Jets” have been around for decades. The first generation of these narrow-body 50-90 seat airplanes were flown by the trunk carriers. The DC9-10 (65 seats) Bac-111 (65 seats) BAe 146 (80 seats) F28 (65 seats) F100 (85 seats) were all “regional jets” — but were flown by experienced crews employed by major airlines.
Most regional-jets have at least one-pilot crewmember who recently completed flight-school and is “building time”.
Maybe if we consumers told the airlines that outsourcing is unacceptable things could change. We could put the flying back into the hands of the major-airlines.
But then again, maybe you’re happy flying on Chautauqua Airlines where your copilot makes less than $20,000 per year and is fresh out of flight-school.
Comment by anonymous — May 12, 2005 @ 9:56 am
I often travel Boston to Raleigh and have a choice between the Delta Comair CRJ and the American Eagle Embraer RJ. I much prefer the Embraer, even though it is smaller, for a silly reason: the windows are bigger. If you like to look out and see what’s going on and where you are, it is pleasant in the Embraer. In the CRJ you need to hunch down and get a sore neck, and I’m not especially tall.
Comment by Mike — June 16, 2005 @ 2:54 pm
I travel alot for my job. I live in and travel to places that usually require me riding on the regional jets. I have always been pleased with the service on these jets. The ride is smooth, and the people very pleasant. I have every confidence that the pilots that fly these planes have had plenty of experience flying and are good at what they do. I have actually began to prefer to ride in the smaller jets as opposed to the larger ones. I hope that your next experience is more like mine.
Comment by paula — June 14, 2006 @ 8:49 am
Well things have gone down big time for Comair. I fly the Toronto to Cincinnati and back twice a month and the CRJ’s are in terrible shape! They are filthy dirt, all the seat backs are hanging open and half the seats are twisted and bent.
I find the flights are always late; it’s as if this is the first flight Comair has ever made to Canada. “Oh we need the paperwork for the plane” so we sit for 45 minutes while some bright spark works on the paper work. I know this plane was snuck into the schedule just 10 months ago and paperwork takes time.
On my last flight back down July 4 2006, the aircraft was delayed showing up in Toronto for about an hour. This delay was not posted any ware and my wife and I were forced to leave our meal and run for the plane. I have posted my cell number with Delta for calls when flights are delayed but received no call. The airport did not post the flight status on the monitors as the flight said it was leaving at 6pm when in fact the aircraft had not even landed in Toronto yet. I asked the ground support staff member (this should be the first person to hit the bricks) at Toronto why the correct information was not posted and her reply was “She did not have time to inform people of the delay”. We were told the flight was delayed when we checked in at 430 but were asked to be at the gate at unless the flight was posted for a late departure. I told her that this was unacceptable as even the bus to the remote terminal runs on what is displayed on the monitors for departure information. Her comment to that was “ Sir there are plenty of other airlines you could choose”. I have Elite status with two airlines and Delta is one of them. If this person worked for me she would find herself on the street so fast it would make her head spin!
Comair needs to settle it’s contract problems, hey you have a deal with your people honor it and move on. You are the most expensive air partner out there and the money is not going to cleaning the planes so get your house in order. Get ride of the dead wood like this ground support staff member. That kind of attitude can take you down in a hurry.
Comment by Dean — July 11, 2006 @ 8:22 am
“First, though, I wanted to post a warning to anyone considering flying Delta Air Lines in the near future. Unless you live in or near a city with a major hub airport, chances are good that you’ll have to take a connecting flight to a hub on a partner or subsidiary airline.”
Hello? This is true for virtually every single airline. It’s called a hub and spoke model and has been the norm for decades on most legacy carriers. As O’Reilly would say, “Wise up.”
Comment by John — July 29, 2006 @ 12:59 am
In view of Comair Flight 5191 incident, maybe some of these people should forward their comments/experiences to FAA.
Comment by Stephen Morin — August 27, 2006 @ 8:05 am
After that plane crash in Kentucky, I bet you will certainly avoid Comair…
Comment by Vicman — August 27, 2006 @ 1:51 pm
Wow, this post has seen a lot of traffic since this morning’s accident. I never took the time to reply to some of the earlier comments, but I suppose I should put in my two cents at this point.
Regarding the crash of Flight 5191: The crash apparently occurred because the plane was taking off from a secondary runway that was too short. Since we don’t yet know whether the plane was misdirected by the tower or the pilot simply took a wrong turn, it would be premature to judge Comair’s competence based on this incident.
Now for the older comments…
@Leo & anonymous #1: As I said in my post, the CRJ is usually a fine aircraft. Without regular maintenance, however, there are bound to be problems. I understand that mechanical failures can sometimes take a flight crew by surprise, but having two hydraulic pumps and the cabin door fail at the same time makes me suspect that Comair was only addressing mechanical problems as they arose rather than performing regular inspections and doing preventative maintenance. All the airlines are strapped for cash these days, and it wouldn’t surprise me if maintenance is one of the areas that have seen budget cuts.
@anonymous #2: As John pointed out (rather rudely) in his comment, the system you describe has been in place for many years. I don’t have any issue with the system itself, but with airlines that don’t seem to perform adequate maintenance on their planes. As for your assertion that the pilots for subsidiary airlines are under-paid and under-trained, I don’t know enough about it to speak to that issue.
@John: I don’t know whether your comment was addressed to me or to anonymous #2, but either way there’s no need for condescension. Mind your manners, or you’ll find your future comments deleted.
Comment by Adam Messinger — August 27, 2006 @ 9:05 pm
The press reports that airline pilots taking off on the wrong runway is a common thing. Be that as it may, it is dangerous, negligent and reckless to do that. Especially considering the risk, the professional standards pilots are held to and the level of safety built into the system.
Kentucky needs to send a message that this is where it stops.
Comment by Annon Commercial Pilot — August 29, 2006 @ 7:58 am
Re comair 5191 crash: I would suggest in the future, all flight crews check the compass heading to coincide with runway choice before powering up for takeoff. Example: If runway choice is 26, then that should be indicated on the aircraft’s compass as heading 260 degrees, if, the pilot in command has chosen the correct runway to use for takeoff. If the compass heading reads 220 degrees and the runway choice is 26, then obviously the pilot flying is lined up on an incorrect runway. Simple check and balance preflight procedure between flight crews. Amen.
Comment by sam — August 29, 2006 @ 1:10 pm
You are completely retarted. You are just a stupid passenger with no education about airlines. Get educated you moran. I am a comair pilot and every pilot is the same at every airline. If you think you are safer on another airline, It just shows how stupid you are. Go fly someone else and you’ll experience the same thing eventually. DELTA’S PLANES ARE OLDER THAN COMAIRS. I HATE UNEDUCATED PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!
Comment by your an idiot — September 5, 2006 @ 9:09 am
Oh yeah, make sure you never fly delta, jetblue, continental, american, frontier, and airtran. ALL OF THESE AIRLINES HAVE HIRED NUMEROUS COMAIR PILOTS. STAY AWAY FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY!!!!!!! morans
Comment by your an idiot — September 5, 2006 @ 9:13 am
your an idiot said:
You mean the kind of uneducated people that can’t spell “you’re” and “moron” correctly?
You say you’re a Comair pilot. If that’s true you aren’t exactly making a favorable impression for your company here, Mr. Idiot.
Comment by Adam Messinger — September 5, 2006 @ 1:28 pm
I’m sorry for the comments that I made above. When your mad you type fast and sometimes say things that may not be very nice. Lets pray for all those who were affected by sundays tragic loss. All airlines make mistakes and have problems. If you don’t want to fly comair then fly someone else, but do not be surprised that the same problems exist everywhere. I hope everyone has a great day. Fly safe.
Comment by sorry — September 5, 2006 @ 2:07 pm
Thanks for your apology, Sorry.
What you say about the same problems existing everywhere is likely very true. It does say something good for the airline industry that the previous five years were free of any major accidents in the United States. Unfortunately, something like this was bound to happen sooner or later in an industry that transports so many people so many miles every day.
My concern is that the financial problems that have hit the airlines since 9/11 might lead to a downturn in safety if maintenance crews end up being victims of budget cuts. I sincerely hope that my experience on Comair two years ago was an isolated experience — just a run of bad luck instead of a sign of larger problems.
The airlines are vitally important to the American economy and to the lives of the millions of people that travel by air every day. If anything good can come of this recent tragedy, it will be a renewed focus on air safety brings us many accident-free years like the five that came before Flight 5191’s crash.
Comment by Adam Messinger — September 5, 2006 @ 3:23 pm
Because my traveling usually consists of two to three hundred mile trips from my home base, I usually do not fly commercial aircraft for transportation. I save time flying myself; I’m a pilot (private not commercial). I don’t have to waste several hours checking in, security checks, or waiting to board the aircraft and retrieving baggage at end of a flight. Therefore I can beat the airlines timewise. Personally, I fly to commercial standards. Because, occasionally, I carry passengers and my family has grown fond of me,(I hope), so I’m extremely careful.
Flight 5191 was a tragedy and an accident. My heart bleeds first for the passengers and crew that lost their lives, the first officer that survived and has to live the rest of his life with the guilt surrounding the circumstances that caused the crash, and lastly for the surviving relatives and friends of each and every one of the victims.
Everything we do, as human beings, involves risk. Every day we all have choices to make based on the level of risk we’re willing to take, for a precieved personal benefit, expecting a positive return for taking that risk. One of the greatest risks we all take, is handing over responsibilty to others who determine what our level of risk will be. When we grant others that responsibility, we loose control of our personal destinies. I actually feel more comfortable when I’m in the cockpit flying myself because I’m the guy in control of my own destiny (excluding mother nature and mechanical malfuntion). But, I know in my heart, that commercial airline pilots are by far, better trained and more experienced than I.
As a passenger flying commercial airlines, I love getting that $300 round trip ticket to fly coast to coast. I’m resonably sure,like most people, that I’ll brag a little to my freinds and family about the cheap airfare I obtained. I’m also reasonably sure, that if air carrier figured out a way to lower their fare to $150, the flying public would be lining up in droves to fly that airline while other airlines would be scrambling to cut costs further just to stay in business. Unless you’re a complete fool, or just in denial (sometimes one in the same), less money in an airline’s operating budget equates to higher risk for the flying public. Just think of the finacial choices we all make with regard to our own automobiles (new tires, brakes, driving while fatigued on our way to work etc.)More money equates to better maintanence, better trained and rested crews and a lower accident rate. None of us would trust a Neurosurgeon that makes $40,000/yr. lives in an apartment and drives a fifteen year old toyota and operates on a disruptive sleep cycle. Yet we expect that of our pilots. Pesonally, I was on track to becomming an ailine pilot, but could not afford the pay cut. Pilots don’t fly for the money. It’s the love of aviation. Given the choice for a little more training in the simulator, or actual flight time, rather than a little more money in the paycheck, most pilots would choose the extra training.
Flying is an amazing feet of engineering that we humans have taking for granted. I will never stop marveling over that fact that something that weighs hundreds of thousands of pounds can become airborne, fly in the stratosphere at close to the speed of sound, and return safely to earth thousand of times each day with very few unfavorable incidents. My hats off to the thousands of men and women that provide such an incredible safe service (Most of the time with a smile).
Lastly, whew !, try flying. Go to you local airport and sign up for a demo flight with a certificated flight instructor. You may just get hooked.
Thanks for staying with me on this,
Allen K.
Comment by Allen N. Kukucka — September 22, 2006 @ 8:50 am
Its seem we have all forgot about the people who died in the crash, the pax and the crew. Yes mistake were made, but we do not know the whole story until the NSTB gives it final report. So stop point figure at the crew, and ask this qustion where was the air taffic controller when this happen. We are forgetting his role. And one more thing, I knew this pliot of the comair 5191. He was the best, all did things by the book, something had to be there wrong that sunday am for him to a mistake like this that it if you so like what I said, I feel sorry for you. thanks an ex ASA/delta conx emp
Comment by ken — October 3, 2006 @ 7:51 am
It is very frustating to read all of these posts from people that have not worked in the airline industry. I spent almost 4 years as a Comair ramp employee, and I can tell eveyone that has criticized Comair that this company has outstanding Pilots, Flight Attendants, Mechanics, and Ramp Personnel. Many of the pilots have come from military backgounds, and have flown all types of airplanes and helicopters. They have the same skills as the Pilots for Delta, Southwest, or any other major airline. They are required each year to complete yearly retraining, and are pushed to the limts just like any other company would do in their recurrent training.
The same goes witht the Comair Flight Attendants. They to are required to go through yearly retraining, and I have witnessed this training myself. It is very difficult, and some people do not pass the testing part of the training. They can’t fly again, until they successfully pass all sections of the test.
Comair’s mechanics have the same training as any other airline’s mechanics, and many of them have worked on larger aircraft. They are required to take the same schooling, and pass the same airframe and engine classes that the other people do.
Comair ramp personnel are also trained to the highest standards, and they are expected to look for any signs of damage or mechanical issues and bring to the attention of the correct people. I several times did that myself, and the plane did not leave the ground, until the problem was taken care of.
For the gentleman that commnented on the inside appearance of the Comair airplanes, I can only tell him that even before the planes pull into the gate, Comair grooming personnel are waiting to move onto the plane and clean it as quickly as possible. Sometimes we only had 25 minutes to deplane, service the aircraft, and board the next flight. Sometimes even less, and I have seen Comair crew members help the groomers clean the plane, so there was no delay in the departure. I know for certain that the other regional carrriers at CVG had more time to clean their planes because they did not have any flights for many hours. Comair is the regional airline of choice at CVG, and it stays very busy. Not having several hours between each flight should tell all of the critics something. As a side note, each airplane is vacumed and scrubbed each and every night before the next day starts.
Someone also mentioned that his tray tables did not work. Time is again the problem here. If the plane is not full, or it is leaving from a city that does not have specific CRJ qualified mechanics to fix the tray tables, they will be put out of service until the plane arrives at a city that has the right people, and the parts to fix the problem, if it needs parts. If the problem with the plane makes it dangerous to fly it, then the people from CVG will fly on another aircraft, and bring the parts with them to the city where the plane is broken. Only then is the plane allowed back in the air.
To the comments about the young pilots just out or flight school, these people are ready and qualified to fly these planes, and it is done the same way for all airlines. Senior Captains at any airline started the same way. You are right, the income is horrible, but these people do it because they love to do what they do. They are gone from their families for days on end, and make no money at first. No other occupation is like this, and people should not complain until they can do it better.
Flight 5191 was a horrible tragedy, and it took the lives of two very good friends, and drastically changed the life of a third. The captain had years of experience, and so did the first officer. I knew them both very well. The flight attendant loved his job, and lived it each and every day. He was spectacular at what he did. I met his family at his memorial service, and I can honestly tell you they miss him. None of these crew members would have wanted the families of the victims to suffer like they all have.
Maybe all of you that have made negative comments, or have stated that you will not fly Delta or Comair again, should fly other airlines with my blessing, and then tell me that they are perfect in all that they do. I know better. I worked every day with people that had worked for other airlines, and they had the same stories to tell that we did. None of them are perfect, but maybe all of you need to learn for yourselves. Jet Blue started off with a bang, and now they are refusing airplanes that they ordered and pulling out of cities that they were once in. Reality is hitting home for them also.
My leaving Comair was of my own doing, but I can’t sit back and let people wrongly accuse my former co-workers of things they don’t deserve. It is a good place, with good people. The CRJ is a good plane, but it is built by humans,and it can break, just like a Boeing, or Embraer or any other brand.
Please think twice next time before you criticize a profession that you know very little about.
Phil
Comment by Phil — October 3, 2006 @ 1:46 pm
Phil,
Very well said! It’s all about the crew and passengers.
Period!
I regret not staying focused, only on the crew and passengers, when I wrote my piece
September 22nd.
Allen
Comment by Allen — October 3, 2006 @ 7:55 pm
Hi Allen, and thanks for your response. I think you are agreeing with my message, if I am reading your note right. If not,then set me straight. Even though I had left Comair before the crash, this disaster has hit close to home for me. I worked with all of those people every day, and they all worked very hard to do a good job. You can’t believe how this has affected the rest of the company.
I am sure you worked very hard to obtain your pilot’s license just like the commercial folks did. It is not an easy thing to do. It is also very expensive. I think the going rate for Comair’s Academy is about 90,000. Then the new pilots come out and make 20,000 a year. Not easy to raise a family on.
I hope I have understood what you said correctly. I look foward to your next note.
Phil
Comment by Phil — October 3, 2006 @ 8:32 pm
thanks allen, pax have no idea that goes on behind the scenes, it what they do not see that need to just shut-up about. Exp. my flt was clxd and I have to get there and it and you did it. How wrong they are, so your plane is in MX due to a eng failure. Ok we are going to put on that plane so it can go down. And they complain about that too. So this Pax need to just shut-up and grow up..We will not put you on a plane that is un safe that is just crazy.. And for this pax who yell at the agent at the gate for something that have no control over. Show me that they so dum that the do not need to fly on my airline anyway. Go fly on dumass airline do it fly by my pants airport. This pax check the brain at the front door. They need spend time in a airline emp shoe for a day, and they will understand maybe. thats it I am getting mad. People need to just shut up and listen and take a chill pill. thks for listen to mouth. ken exASA/emp and a NW emp.
Comment by ken — October 3, 2006 @ 11:14 pm
Actually, people don’t need to “just shut up and listen” and “take a chill”.
This isn’t Russia and you can’t put a gun to people’s heads and tell them that they have to accept negligence and death just ’cause you said so.
There was nothing wrong with that airplane, no mechanical reason for it to crash and furthermore, there’s no reason the public should accept the “things just happen” answer.
Comment by Annon Commercial Pilot — October 17, 2006 @ 9:54 am
While there have been a lot of good comments on this post, they’re starting to get repetitive. I’m disabling the comment feature, since I think most of what can be said on this issue has been covered. My thanks to everyone who has contributed to the discussion.
Comment by Adam Messinger — October 17, 2006 @ 9:49 pm